Better cam (550D kit) or better lens (1000D+50mm f/1.4 + 18-55IS + 18-250IS)

[CrAzY PiCs]

Guys,

PLEASE HELP!

I am looking to buy my DSLR (Finally, finance is arranged somewhat!!!). Problem is, I have a maximum budget of around 40k, and i am not sure what would be the best way to spend it. Please help with your suggestions.

Current Equipment-

Canon Powershot S5IS.


Requirements

Cars & bikes.
Landscapes.
Realy uncomfortable with taking potraits. This is something i really need to learn. Hence 50mm would be ideal lens in the kit, i guess
Macro (Possible in this budget? I doubt it! Will have to use the S5IS for that, i suppose! ).
Next upgrade will be after 2 years. Hence, i need to hang on to these equipments only for the next 2 years!

(My flickr link- http://www.flickr.com/mythoughtsexpressed . Please check my pics to see the kind of usage it will be having.)


Choices.


1. Canon 550D kit / 550 D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens.

Would love to get one! I can imagine how it would feel in my hands. Problem is, it is absolutely at the edge of my budget, and i wont be able to buy any other lenses! However, I understand that, whenever i do get to upgrade and buy a lens- the camera will be upto it.

2. Canon 1000D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens + Canon 18-55 IS+ Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

I get a lens that is good for potraits + a 'good' zoom lens. Should i get the 18-55 IS along with the 50mm? (kit lens is non- IS). The logic here is that, i'll be upgrading to a better camera after 2 years. And these are lenses i could actually use then also!


3. Nikons- Prefer canon since i have one AND mainly because they dont sport in-built motors. But open to buying them, if they are a better deal. Not going outside canikon. (Better brands may be there, but playing safe!)

4. Go used cam way. Although i like the idea, not sure if i can pull it off. Somehow, i feel safe buying new (Even though may be grey).

Decision (almost! :o)
Almost decided on Canon 1000D + 18-55 IS + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens + Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS + Vanguard MAK 233 Tripod + 8gb card + bag.

Why this decision?

1. 2 years later is when i would be able to upgrade. At that time, i think a camera upgrade makes more sense that upgrading lenses?
2. I'd be really starved with a kit lens only for 2 years.

Is this the right decision within my budget of around 40k?

[KrishnenduKes]

Discussion Approved

[synn]

prefer canon since i have one AND mainly because they dont sport in-built motors.

I think you're a bit misinformed here. The nikons from D90 upwards sport a built-in motor to maintain compatibility with older AF D lenses. Almost all newer lenses they have (and you may need) are AF-S G, which means that the lens has a built-in SWM motor. You can start off with the excellet 18-55 VR/ 55-200 VR combo.

The only problem here is that if you get a body lower than the D90, you'll be stuck with manual focus on the cheaper 50 f1.8 D lens. Your two options then are the 50 f1.4 G ( more expensive) and the 35 f1.8 G. Basically, go for ONLY G lenses if you have a D3000/ D5000.

Another bit of advice is not to restrict yourselves to only a 50 prime, especially when you're starting out. It's a fantastic lens and takes great portraits, but you're gonna come across situations where you WILL need more coverage.

Lastly, if you go Canon, DO NOT get the non-IS 18-55. It is seriously inferior to the IS version in terms of optics.

[CrAzY PiCs]

I have a maximum budget of around 40k
This has been increased to 50k. :p
Choices.
1. Canon 550D kit / 550 D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens.

2. Canon 1000D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens + Canon 18-55 IS+ Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

3. Nikons
Now, with the increased budget, the choices are-

1. Canon 550D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens. + Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS. - Approx 54k.

2. Nikon D90 + 18-105 VR kit. - Approx- 51k.

Discussion Approved
Thank you.

Lastly, if you go Canon, DO NOT get the non-IS 18-55. It is seriously inferior to the IS version in terms of optics.
Sure! Regarding the other points mentioned, I have decided to stick to 550D/ D90 for now (and upgrade lens later!).

What do you think is better from the above choices? Any way to include a macro option too? Currently i have Sonia close up filters which can be used with the 55-250, but IQ wont be anything to mention about, i guess! :(

[KrishnenduKes]

Whoa! The plot thickens! :D

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

This has been increased to 50k. :p

Now, with the increased budget, the choices are-

1. Canon 550D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens. + Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS. - Approx 54k.

2. Nikon D90 + 18-105 VR kit. - Approx- 51k.


Thank you.


Sure! Regarding the other points mentioned, I have decided to stick to 550D/ D90 for now (and upgrade lens later!).

What do you think is better from the above choices? Any way to include a macro option too? Currently i have Sonia close up filters which can be used with the 55-250, but IQ wont be anything to mention about, i guess! :(

Sonia Filters are not quality stuff.for macro if you have another 30k then you can think of the 100mm.Else if you have around 5k then you can go for the raynox kit.


Anvancy

[powerslave]

This has been increased to 50k. :p

Now, with the increased budget, the choices are-

1. Canon 550D + Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 Lens. + Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS. - Approx 54k.

2. Nikon D90 + 18-105 VR kit. - Approx- 51k.


Thank you.


Sure! Regarding the other points mentioned, I have decided to stick to 550D/ D90 for now (and upgrade lens later!).

What do you think is better from the above choices? Any way to include a macro option too? Currently i have Sonia close up filters which can be used with the 55-250, but IQ wont be anything to mention about, i guess! :(
I can't help you decide between Canon or Nikon, but all I can say is get a prime no matter what. It'll force you to think your compositions out and spoil you with unbelievable sharpness.

I started out with 400D + 50 f/1.8 only. After a few months bought the 18-55IS, then 55-250IS.

All of these are too good for their price. As for the body, I generally suggest everyone to spend on lenses and minimal on body, but in this case, I would make an exception and suggest you spend a bit on the body as well. 550D will get you full HD movie shooting capabilities, something which is a sight to behold at f/1.8.

Secondly, the 550D is a much newer body and it's high ISO performance is better than the 1000D.

So 550D + nifty should serve you well for a long time.


EDIT: Just noticed you said you are willing to spend on 550D plus 50 + 55-250. In this case, I would highly recommend the 18-55IS over the 55-250IS because you will be frustrated with the number of shots you'll miss without a walkaround lens. 50mm * 1.6 crop = 80mm is long. You will have to pull out your pocketcam (if you have been using one) for indoor shots.

My suggestion: 550D + 50 f/1.8 + 18-55IS.

[synn]

Friend of mine who owns both systems tells me that the 17 MP Canon sensor on the 550D (And the 7D that he owns) has a fairly restrictive diffraction limit of f6.3. Now I have no first hand experience and you may very well choose to ignore this, but that sounds like a serious handicap for someone who's into landscaping a lot.

I can however, tell you about the D90. It's very solidly built (If you want a better built Canon, you'll have to get a 50D), has an intelligent AF system and arguably the best metering in the industry and the 18-105 VR is quite good for a kit lens. Way better than the 18-135 it replaced. Good news is, the 50 f1.8 isn't that expensive and you'll be able to afford it sooner rather than later. I'd say the D90 is the perfect starter platform upon which you can build your system.

If you're seriously into video though, there's no contest. The Canon wins without even trying.

[amvj]

I will choose a new camera anyday. The 1000D is very old. If you can't afford to buy lenses now, you can buy it later but this is not in the case of camera.

Obviously a new camera will have more features, functions and offers more convenience.

[CrAzY PiCs]

Whoa! The plot thickens! :D
:p
Sonia Filters are not quality stuff.for macro if you have another 30k then you can think of the 100mm.Else if you have around 5k then you can go for the raynox kit.
Anvancy
First of all, congrats on the 550D! Gives me a lot more confidence now that my selection was somewhat spot-on.

30k- Defenitly No!

Raynox should come in during stage 2! Have to stick with the Sonia filter till then.
My suggestion: 550D + 50 f/1.8 + 18-55IS.
Thank you. I didnt consider 1.6 crop! Will have to think which lens i need the most as of now. Purchase will be in August, as i need to save a bit more.

[CrAzY PiCs]

I'd say the D90 is the perfect starter platform upon which you can build your system.
Head says D90, but heart says 550D.

Can anyone post pictures to show how good is 105mm range? Somehow i get a feeling i will long for better zoom. 18-105vr will be excellent as a walkaround lens though! With 50 f/1.8 for potraits.
I will choose a new camera anyday. The 1000D is very old. If you can't afford to buy lenses now, you can buy it later but this is not in the case of camera.
1000D is out. Its now a classic canon/ nikon case with 550D against D90.

[Devaiah PA]

Head says D90, but heart says 550D.

Can anyone post pictures to show how good is 105mm range? Somehow i get a feeling i will long for better zoom. 18-105vr will be excellent as a walkaround lens though! With 50 f/1.8 for potraits.

1000D is out. Its now a classic canon/ nikon case with 550D against D90.

No brand promotion from my side...
Since you have asked for samples(PP: contrast and color correction done, also resized/cropped) I am posting it.... lot more samples are available on the internet.... but do not make decision based on samples(99% of them are post processed).... there are a number of factors that matter to make a better photo... brands(Nikon/Canon) matters the least.


borrow cameras from your friends, experience them and make your own judgement.


1) Nikkor 18-105mm at 105mm/f6.3 on D90...
http://www.thephotographer.in/darkroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=1481&stc=1&d=1279384614

2) Nikkor 50mm at f5.6 on D90... on tripod the image would have been crisp.
http://www.thephotographer.in/darkroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=1275&d=1273378469

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

The 18-105 kit lens from nikon is one kickass lens from the kit.

Choose your weapon wisely!

Anvancy

[debangshu]

Head says D90, but heart says 550D.

Can anyone post pictures to show how good is 105mm range? Somehow i get a feeling i will long for better zoom. 18-105vr will be excellent as a walkaround lens though! With 50 f/1.8 for potraits.

1000D is out. Its now a classic canon/ nikon case with 550D against D90.

Hey buddy "mythoughtsexpressed" you ain't seeing my D90 pics in flickr? you are on my contact list. I have also just stepped into the DSLR world.
Check this out : http://www.thephotographer.in/darkroom/showthread.php?t=846&page=2

or

http://www.flickr.com/photos/debangshu4u/sets/72157624102128750/

[CrAzY PiCs]

I am posting it....[/IMG]
The 18-105 kit lens from nikon is one kickass lens from the kit.
Hey buddy "mythoughtsexpressed" you ain't seeing my D90 pics in flickr? you are on my contact list. I have also just stepped into the DSLR world.[/URL]

Thanks guys. 18-105 VR is a fantastic lens no doubt.

My questions is a bit different though! Can anyone post a pic (may be a landscape) at 18mm, and same with 105mm as well. Just to get an idea of the zoom range! If this is present in any of the review site, links would help as well.

Thanks all!

@ debangshu: Congrats. I do follow your pics, both in flickr as well as thepin.

[synn]

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikkor_kit_lens_group_test/

This should guide you.

[synn]

Just came across another link that might help you as well:

http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Canon-Rebel-T2i-EOS-550D-Compared-to-Nikon-D90.shtml

[CrAzY PiCs]

Just came across another link that might help you as well:

http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Canon-Rebel-T2i-EOS-550D-Compared-to-Nikon-D90.shtml
Quite an eye- opener, that link! Thanks synn.

Few questions- Suppose i go the Nikon (D90) way, which of these lens configurations makes more sense?

1. 18- 105 VR. now (+ 50 f/1.8 six months down the line)?

2. 18- 55 IS + 50mm f/1.8 now (+ 70-300 Sigma/ Nikon six months down the line)?

I guess first one makes more sense, in that i get an excellent walkaround lens + a good prime lens after 6 months. Only problem is the lack of a proper zoom option.

Also, which is a good zoom lens in the Nikkor range within 15k?

[synn]

The 18-55 VR is sharper than the 18-105 VR. I say go for option 2 for now. Get the 55-200 later. It's an excellent zoom lens and I think it fits your price range (Not really sure about prices in India).

Do NOT get a cheap sigma/tamron tele. There are far too many compromises involved.

The 70-300 VR is a great lens as well, but it may be a bit too pricey (25 k I think). The 70-300 G is uber cheap, but it's a crappy lens. I know, coz I use one. :D

[Bibudesh]

I second synn.
In fact I should say right now you go ahead with only the 18-55mm VR and leave out the 50mm f/1.8. Keep looking for if u get a used one. There are other AI lenses available like 50mm f/2 which are equally good (they will not offer AF though). After u gain good knowledge you can make better decision.

Remember that 50mm is a repeat FL which is covered in 18-55mm. U need to see if you need the advantage offered by the 50mm (read bokeh and low light performance).

Keep your 15k in savings account, save another 6k from 50mm, save some more and get the 70-300 VR. You'll never repent.

[Devaiah PA]

Thanks guys. 18-105 VR is a fantastic lens no doubt.

My questions is a bit different though! Can anyone post a pic (may be a landscape) at 18mm, and same with 105mm as well. Just to get an idea of the zoom range! If this is present in any of the review site, links would help as well.


Lens simulator....

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/lens/simulator/

[CrAzY PiCs]

The 18-55 VR is sharper than the 18-105 VR. I say go for option 2 for now.
In fact I should say right now you go ahead with only the 18-55mm VR
Keep your 15k in savings account, save another 6k from 50mm, save some more and get the 70-300 VR. You'll never repent.
Thanks a lot for the suggestions!

This forums rocks! I would have never thought this way. I'm getting more confused, but hey... its a nice feeling afterall! :p
Lens simulator....

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/lens/simulator/
Exactly what i was looking for. Thank you.

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Just try the D90 at the DSLR Nikon Zone and feel it personally.Nothing harm in trying out the camera first.

Anvancy

[CrAzY PiCs]

Just try the D90 at the DSLR Nikon Zone and feel it personally.Nothing harm in trying out the camera first.

Anvancy
Went to Camera Citi (Chennai) today. But unfortunately, they did not have stock for both D90 & 550D. I will be visiting some shops tomorrow. I havent handled both the cams yet. So, eager to feel it before deciding.

Happy news is- i will be buying it soon. This weekend, if i am able to reach a decision. :p

[powerslave]

What's the costs of these two cams in India currently? (with the 18-55 or body only)

[CrAzY PiCs]

What's the costs of these two cams in India currently? (with the 18-55 or body only)
D90 body costs 39,795 with warranty. 550D body costs 43,195 with warranty.

Both prices taken from smartshoppers.

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Canon India only has limited stock of 550D.thats why dealers are charging a little premium.But my friend told me,that stocks are coming again in plenty.So expect the prince of 550D to go down by around 500-to max 1000bucks.

the price of 550D with kit lens is 44 to 45k with official india warranty.

Anvancy

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Some things to clear for you.

If you think that DSLR video shooting is easy as p&s its actually not.I mean shooting is easy.The transferring decoding and encoding again is where things matter.

Each movie of average 1:00 takes about 350mb of space.So you have re-encode in normal desktop speed if you shooting HD.(1280 one).

In INDIA the TV format is PAL.So video is recorded in PAL is 25fps(Full HD) to match our INDIAN TVs.When you shoot 1280 you are recording at 50fps for PAL and 60fps for NTSC.When you download on comp you have interpret it to 29.97 to match our comp viewing.
Now Premiere Pro CS5 does offer all this,and you can straight convert to H264 format for web viewing.The point is of mb.the upward you climb on the timeline the size increases.And then it takes a lot of time for upload.

So if you are planning to shoot occasional family videos,friend parties and upload on facebook/youtube you will require a decent power comp.To do the processing.If you are serious about VIDEO and its capabilities,then incline towards the 550D.If you are 50% video and want a specific canon lens like me then incline towards the 550D.if the video category falls below 50% then choose your own weapon.Be it Canon or Nikon.Totally your choice.

my 2 p.

Anvancy

[synn]

When you shoot 1280 you are recording at 50fps for PAL and 60fps for NTSC.

no you're not. Not if you're shooting 1080 (Not 1280)p. That stands for progressive. You are shooting at 25 FPS as progressive scan renders one entire frame at a time. The only thing you have to take care of if you're gonna broadcast is to render the output to fields, as normal TVs (not HD broadcast) render interlaced, which is 2 passes per frame.

Then again, shooting 16:9 video has little relevance to SDTV, which still uses 720 x 576 (4:3).


Each movie of average 1:00 takes about 350mb of space.So you have re-encode in normal desktop speed if you shooting HD.

Again, wrong. The right workflow is to encode it into an uncompressed format (Which takes more space) before editing to relieve stress on the GPU and maximise quality, because the DSLR is recording in a compressed format (h.264 for canon, MJPEG for Nikon).

If you think that DSLR video shooting is easy as p&s its actually not.I mean shooting is easy.

This is somewhat right. DSLR video shooting is not for casual shooters. There is no continuous AF yet and you have to mark down AF points before you shoot. A rig is essential if you want to maintain consistent, smooth focusing and zooming.

Bottom line is, if all you wanna do is shoot videos of some family gatherings etc. and Facebook them, you're better off with a phone/ P&S. DSLR video shoot requires a strict workflow to get the maximum efficiency out of the tools and can easily frustrate the amateur.

We use a 5D Mk II for all our production shoots now and I actually find it easy to use, but that's because I had to deal with a Panasonic pro video cam before this and that thing required one to set 50 different things before we got a decent picture out of it.

[CrAzY PiCs]

the price of 550D with kit lens is 44 to 45k with official india warranty.
Anvancy
Nikon d90 prices have almost crashed. Its now considerably cheaper!

You wont believe, when i started the discussions on buying a cam, i considered 550D and left out D90 seeing the prices!
If you are serious about VIDEO and its capabilities,then incline towards the 550D.If you are 50% video and want a specific canon lens like me then incline towards the 550D.if the video category falls below 50% then choose your own weapon.
Be it Canon or Nikon.Totally your choice.
Not really serious about video! Otherwise, it would have been an easy decision.

I'm really crazy about low light and high ISO performance though! And it looks like both are fairly matched on this score.

[debangshu]

Nikon d90 prices have almost crashed. Its now considerably cheaper!

You wont believe, when i started the discussions on buying a cam, i considered 550D and left out D90 seeing the prices!

Not really serious about video! Otherwise, it would have been an easy decision.

I'm really crazy about low light and high ISO performance though! And it looks like both are fairly matched on this score.

Seems its getting really tough to decide now!

[powerslave]

Wow the D90 cheaper than the T2i, kinda hard to imagine.

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Nikon d90 prices have almost crashed. Its now considerably cheaper!

You wont believe, when i started the discussions on buying a cam, i considered 550D and left out D90 seeing the prices!

Not really serious about video! Otherwise, it would have been an easy decision.

I'm really crazy about low light and high ISO performance though! And it looks like both are fairly matched on this score.

You have the choice now.

Anvancy

[CrAzY PiCs]

Seems its getting really tough to decide now!
Wow the D90 cheaper than the T2i, kinda hard to imagine.
You have the choice now.
Anvancy
It is driving me mad actually! Unless, i am asleep- i am thinking 550D v/s D90! :o

Another observation- Stuff is expensive in Chennai! Same D90 kit which is 51+ in bangalore was qouted at 56k+ by 2 dealers. The best price i heard for the 550D kit was 44k+, and went up to 46+ at one place!

AND, they dont have a demo piece. After visiting 4 showrooms, i am yet to see & feel both the cams. :mad: 550D box was the best thing i got to see today!

Thinking of getting it from bangalore. Savings are good considering the travel expense as well. Hopefully, i will also be able to see both the cams before deciding.

[powerslave]

The best way to decide is exactly that. You've read the reviews, opinions, pros and cons. At the end you just want to hold and see what camera calls out to you. *cough* "It selects you." *cough*

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

There have been instances where the seal was removed,the battery taken out and some third party canon lookalike was put in.After several complaints,there is a two step method followed now.

Cameras reach delhi already having factory seal.There the camera boxes are checked for content,any misplacement,serial nos noted and then canon INDIA seal is put on and both the seals are put again.

When you decide to buy suppose the 550D,he will present the sealed box to you and TELL YOU to open it.If the dealer gives you an open box,you have every right to straight way decline it.

I think same goes on for nikon.

have you checked Croma and other big digital malls?Some do keep for seeing/testing.

When i received my 550D,I had to open it and send the warranty card back to mumbai for dealer stamp.

Have you checked these stores?If not do call and ask.If you already have,skip it.

ACCESS COMPUTER DATA CORP http://canon.quasar.co.in/partners/images/star1_partner.gif Platinum Partner 127, STERLING ROAD, NUNGAMBAKKAM
CHENNAI
TAMIL NADU
Pin : 600034
Tel : 044-28231807 / 28205353/28217215
Email : acdcorp@vsnl.net
Contact Person : Mr. Dilipkumar RATHNA PHOTO IMPEX CENTER http://canon.quasar.co.in/partners/images/silver_partner.gif Silver Partner IIND FLOOR, NO.61, ELLIS ROAD
CHENNAI
TAMIL NADU
Pin : 600 002
Tel : 044-28513227
Email : rathnaphoto@yahoo.co.in
Contact Person : Mr. M R.D Rathinaarasu CHANDRIKA DIGICLICK ZONE
120 "W" BLOCK, 3RD AVENUE, ANNANAGAR
CHENNAI
TAMIL NADU
Pin : 600040
Tel : 42171711
Mobile : 9841176798 / 9444086798
Email : chandrikastudio@eth.net
Contact Person : Mr.Rajasekhar

for nikon..

Shetala Cameras (Chennai)
Address:
F-25, 2nd Avenue, Annanagae East, Chennai 600102

Phone: +91-44 42069058, +91-44 65299103

Email : niranjan@shetalacamera.com

Contact Person: Mr. Suresh/ Mr. Niranjan


Anvancy

[debangshu]

@anvancy: Yes, you are right.

For Nikon : I got it from Kolkata through one of the studios here and they first showed me the sealed pack box and then asked my permission to open the seal. The warranty cards were signed and sealed then.

Surprisingly the Ebay dealers from Chennai are also selling it at higher prices than the dealers at Kolkata.

[Aryan]

@anvancy: That's a pretty informative post. :) Thanks for sharing it.

[CrAzY PiCs]

Guys,

The search has come to an end. Thanks to all for their suggestions. You all have helped me a lot in this decision making process.

If you'd remember- i had started with the 1000D, and ended it with a comparo of 550D v/s D90. Both very capable cams on their own (and the limits would far exceed mine).

Hoping to put a review soon!

PS- I am in bangalore for now. Hence, review may a few days. Let the choice be a small surprise till then.