Point and Shoot Digital Cameras; various models...

[KrishnenduKes]

I have been wondering about the evolution of P&S digital cameras over the years. They are not a replacement for digital SLR cameras but they come in pretty handy at a lot of occasions with very good results that can often leave several DSLR camera users speechless. At the same time, most DSLR users are generally not much aware of the evolution of the P&S format. There are the biggies like Canon and Nikon with their Ixus, Powershot, and Coolpix. Then there are the other players like Lumix, Sony, Samsung and others…

I have been using a Sony DSC-W70. This is has stood me in good stead for the past 3 years. I will continue using this one but it is slowly beginning to fail me. Maël uses a Samsung that he got as a gift from his cousin, a S860, a wonderful machine that has immensely pleased me. I will obviously be looking to move to a newer P&S in the near future. But illiterate that I am in this field, I am pretty much at a loss to know about the various aspects of the cameras of the P&S kinds.

Normally, for such cameras, one tends to budget between 8K and around 20K at max best. I would like to know the knowledgeable people to express their know how in this field, starting from basics to bridges. For example, an esteemed friend of mine in the field of photography happened to mention that Samsung is a maker of sensors! Now this was a revelation for me. If you have information like that to share, it might influence the way we present the world in the form of pictures.

I suppose a thread like this can keep on evolving over time with the arrival of newer technologies and winner products. And one keep adding on as and when the products get announced along with their comparative qualities.

[synn]

Ken: You are right there, Samsung makes sensor chips. So does Sony, and quite a few manufacturers buy their sensors from these two.

About P&S's, my observation is that the software in them tend to give rich, vibrant colors out of the box. Of course, DSLR images can be tweaked to attain the same results, but I doubt if the target audience for P&S's would bother to do the same.

These cameras don't really have the resolution power of DSLRs, but they more than make up for it with the convenience factor. Not everyone wants to switch lenses to take a picture of a bridge and then boat out in the river. My sister, for example, would scowl at such a notion. Superzooms (Bridge cameras) are perfect for such folks because they feature unbelievable zoom ranges (20 something to 600 something mm for the best of 'em).

Lastly, the live view in these cameras (The ONLY view finder in almost all of them) trumps the implementation of the same in ANY DSLR and is a major boon for macros etc. Some, like certain Sony Cybershots have touchscreens by which users can "Touch" the point where the camera needs to focus. Pretty sweet, eh? :D

All this makes life unbelievably easy for the enthusiast amateur. I remember the last time I tried some macros. I was trying my best to get a flower into focus in the wind, while my friend with her touch screen cybershot was clicking flower after flower with ease! And yes, I didn't get one shot worth sharing with the world, haha.

As for brands, I've seen that Sony, Samsung, Casio and Panasonic have some very appealing designs that connect with the younger crowd. Olympus has a fully waterproof and shock proof design as well. Nikon and Canon, while giants in the DSLR market, have comparitively "Boring" designs in this segment. Mind you, these caeras are VERY capable, but the other brands win design-wise.

[Xavier]

Nice post Ken. :)

Yes, digital P&S cameras have definitely 'evolved' a lot in the past 3-4 years. But unfortunately the evolution hasn't come in the places where it should have. Manufacturers are hell bent on increasing the megapixel count and ill informed customers are falling for it. Hence you'll find 12 or even 15 million pixels cramped in microscopic sized sensors. Images shot at ISO 800 and above with these cameras produce beautiful results. Of water colour-sque paintings that is :|
However, not all is lost here. Most of the bridge/superzoom P&S cameras are a lot better than their smaller compact counterparts in terms of image quality, build, optical zoom range, and overall feel. Many amateur photographers prefer these cameras over DSLRs because of the cheaper rates and portability factor involved.
Having said this, I believe that there are a few good compact cameras too. Ricoh has a good model and the Canon G series are known to be a DSLR owner's backup camera. Fuji has some good models I presume, though Anvancy would be the best person to shed some light on these.

My view is that, given a budget of Rs. 10-20k, I'd definitely buy a Fuji or a Panasonic superzoom camera instead of a compact one. I've seen people shoot terrific pictures using these cameras and Anvancy is definitely amongst one of them. Another friend of mine, Hayath uses a Sony H-2 and some of his pics rival the best in its class. Here's the link to his flickr -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayath/
See it to believe it :)

[KrishnenduKes]

Ken: You are right there, Samsung makes sensor chips. So does Sony, and quite a few manufacturers buy their sensors from these two.
As for brands, I've seen that Sony, Samsung, Casio and Panasonic have some very appealing designs that connect with the younger crowd. Olympus has a fully waterproof and shock proof design as well. Nikon and Canon, while giants in the DSLR market, have comparitively "Boring" designs in this segment. Mind you, these caeras are VERY capable, but the other brands win design-wise.

Thanks Synn to you too. Somehow I missed your informative text.
Nice post Ken. :)

Yes, digital P&S cameras have definitely 'evolved' a lot in the past 3-4 years....Anvancy would be the best person to shed some light on these.

My view is that, if you give me a budget of Rs. 10-20k, I'd definitely buy a Fuji or a Panasonic superzoom camera instead of a compact one. I've seen people shoot terrific pictures using these cameras and Anvancy is definitely amongst one of them. Another friend of mine, Hayath uses a Sony H-2 and some of his pics rival the best in its class. Here's the link to his flickr -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayath/
See it to believe it :)

Great post Xavier. Very informative. All of it. Very relevant indeed. Could you give us the name of the Ricoh model that you are talking about? And is it available in India?

Thanks.

[Aryan]

A Point and Shoot camera (P&S) is something that any photographer MUST have in his/ her arsenal, I believe. It is not really necessary that one should carry it around along with the D-SLR that he/ she might have, but nonetheless, it doesn't really hurt doing so.

I have a Canon Powershot S3 IS. Although not really a P&S, but it is a really good camera nevertheless. I would however, prefer a P&S over something like the S3 simply because of the size factor involved. I would want a P&S for the convenience that I could simply snap it out of my pocket, focus on the subject and snap, instead of deciding which lens to use, taking the lens out of the bag, fitting the lens on the body and subsequently looking at my subject only to realize that the 'bee' has flown away! :p

Not only this, I have also noticed that when someone is shooting a subject like 'people', if you use a P&S, they somehow seem to feel more comfortable with you around them. Lugging a big D-SLR with that wide angle lens protruding out from the camera body really scares them off, and they feel shy or hesitant to get photographed, forget candids. Here, a P&S is simply unmatchable. You can be as nonchalant as you can, and simply blend in with the surrounding. ;)

Lastly, I feel a P&S is far BETTER when it comes to macro photography at any given point of time. Ofcourse, what it clicks is not really a 1:1 photograph (it's more a 'close-up' shot) but the ease of use is what takes the cake. With a true macro lens (as on D-SLR), one really needs to understand the technicalities involved to get the shot. Ofcourse, there is no comparison when it comes to the quality of the two (the details captured), but if it is a 'close up' shot you want, P&S will deliver each time. :)

[Xavier]

Great post Xavier. Very informative. All of it. Very relevant indeed. Could you give us the name of the Ricoh model that you are talking about? And is it available in India?
Thanks.

Glad you liked it Ken. The Ricoh model that I'm talking about is the Ricoh GR Digital II - dpreview link (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0710/07103001ricohgrd2.asp)

It's more of a niche product, but since I was comparing it to the G-series, I believe the comparison is kinda valid. I don't know about its availability in India, but I guess one can easily procure it via Adorama or BHPhoto.

[Xavier]

I have a Canon Powershot S3 IS. Although not really a P&S, I would however, prefer a P&S over something like the S3 simply because of the size factor involved. I would want a P&S for the convenience that I could simply snap it out of my pocket, focus on the subject and snap,

Err? The S3 IS is a P&S camera. It comes under the Super Zoom or Semi Pro P&S category. I believe you're confusing P&S with Compact P&S cameras. :)

[Aryan]

Err? The S3 IS is a P&S camera. It comes under the Super Zoom or Semi Pro P&S category. I believe you're confusing P&S with Compact P&S cameras. :)
Yes, I precisely meant I would love to have a compact P&S than something like the S3, which is apparently a 'semi-pro'. :p I wouldn't ofcourse get the whopping 12x zoom lens, but I would still prefer a compact as compared to something like the S3.

[KrishnenduKes]

I have a Canon Powershot S3 IS. Although not really a P&S, but it is a really good camera nevertheless. I would however, prefer a P&S over something like the S3 simply because of the size factor involved.

Not only this, I have also noticed that when someone is shooting a subject like 'people', if you use a P&S, they somehow seem to feel more comfortable with you around them.

Brilliant post Aryan. I would like to know how do you differentiate between your camera and a p&s? I mean what is the criteria that you are applying?

I totally agree with your idea about people being at ease when you shoot with a "smaller" camera. Which is why the Leica is such a preferred camera of Professional street photographers, because of it's unobtrusive nature.

Err? The S3 IS is a P&S camera. It comes under the Super Zoom or Semi Pro P&S category. I believe you're confusing P&S with Compact P&S cameras. :)

Let us include all of them within the purview of this discussion. I am unable to make the distinction though or very vaguely. Is it something like the difference between the G9 and the Ixus?

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

i am always baffled the way people act and ofcourse "react" here india specific.when you say camera P&S obvious letters that come are C N and then S.its more of a status symbol here.what the bunch of people are buying is a true cam.if u happen to go and buy something else,you become untouchable.people dont look at you,speak with you,talk like he has a bad cam etc.

the main thing that is missing in us is that we dont research.we are just taken away by that poster of sachin tendulkar holding a C in his hand with nice letters CANON and awesome angles of the camera.the C especially is very very aggressive in marketing in INDIA.the N comes next.

so if you happen to buy a F or an O camera,you are not a buyer.

P&S has some intra categories in it.a starter one,intermediate one,and premiums.premiums include compacts as well as bridges.

in this category to me the C and the N perform exactly the same.and many Cs and Ns are priced relatively same.so if one cam is 10k,the other will be 9999.a psychological pricing strategy.

sonys always have been pricing their stuff above what its worth.their cybershots are nice though.but like i said.premium pricing.

for starter cams there is no specific suggestion.buy any.but my recommendation will be not to buy a starter one.start with the intermediate only.my recommendation will be the fuji F31FD or 40FD or F60FD.all these are great compacts.great noise handling capability,excellent flash coverage,fuji's SCCD in them.ideal buy.an ideal gift for your gf or wife or child.easy to use.(i am a fuji admirer..LOL)

for premiums,in the compact category,there are two current picks.the first will be ofcourse the panasonic LX-3.its surely premium tagged,but its worth every penny for a compact.the second will be the fuji F200EXR.new sensor,which is going thru critics.but the results are looking beautiful.these two are true pocket cams.

for bridges.there are starter bridges..like fuji s1000fd,s1500,s2000.s8000fd.they are all triplets.again nice buy for those who want to "start".then there are premiums like the canon G series.the panasonic DMC-FZ50 or the 28,the oly s595 or s565.all are very useful cams and produce superb images once you know where the strength of the camera is.

my personal on the wishlist is the fuji s100fs.its a bigger bro of my cam.tinch bigger sensor,2/3s.massive 14x MANUAL zoom.SCCD,with HR.film simulation and most imp to me personally..fuji colors..

ofcourse the tag on the s100 is high,but its an ultimate alternative to a DSLR.

anvancy.

[Aryan]

I would like to know how do you differentiate between your camera and a p&s? I mean what is the criteria that you are applying?

The main factor which, for me, differentiates a P&S from something like an S3 is the size. I would love to have a small, compact camera which can just gel into the environment. Something like the Sony Cybershot DSC series (the compact ones) is what I would like to have with me all the time (although I do carry my 400D EVERYWHERE. :D).


I am unable to make the distinction though or very vaguely. Is it something like the difference between the G9 and the Ixus?
More like the Sony DSC T-20 and the Sony Cybershot DSC H-7. It is the size which differentiates a compact camera with, say, a semi-pro (like the H3/H5/H7 or the Canon Powershot S3 IS/ S5 IS). I love the compactness of these P&S (like the T-20 in this case), although the image quality might leave much to be desired, but when I need to get the shot, nothing like a compact!

For Reference only:

Sony DSC-T20
http://www.photoaxe.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/sony-dsc-t20-black.jpg

Sony Cybershot DSC-H7
http://www.pma-show.com/news_images/00132_sony_cybershot_h7.jpg

[KrishnenduKes]

More like the Sony DSC T-20 and the Sony Cybershot DSC H-7. It is the size which differentiates a compact camera with, say, a semi-pro (like the H3/H5/H7 or the Canon Powershot S3 IS/ S5 IS). I love the compactness of these P&S (like the T-20 in this case), although the image quality might leave much to be desired, but when I need to get the shot, nothing like a compact!

Ok. Thanks. I am beginning to get the picture.

[Xavier]

Let us include all of them within the purview of this discussion. I am unable to make the distinction though or very vaguely. Is it something like the difference between the G9 and the Ixus?

A bridge camera would do something like its name suggests, act like a bridge between a normal sub 15k compact P&S and a DSLR. A bridge camera would have more optical zoom range, a heavier body, a larger sensor and in general better optics than a compact P&S.

Both Compact P&S and Bridge cameras come under the P&S category as they lack the mirror element that SLRs have and thus the presence of a TTL optical viewfinder, and also the option of changing lenses

Having said this, I would also like to talk about Panasonic Lumix who have come up with the G1 which is a P&S with a sensor half the size of a full frame and the option of changing lenses. Currently it doesn't make sense to go for this new sensation because the technology is in its infancy and only 2 lenses are available. Also, I don't really relish the prospect of looking through an EVF, but that's just me! :p The G1 costs as much entry level DSLRs and I've heard some not so good things about its JPEG images, so it would be better to wait and watch before this 'Micro Four-Thirds' technology comes into its own.
Here's the dpreview link for the G1 Panasonic Lumix G1 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/)

Hope that clarified things a bit. :)

[Vicky]

More like the Sony DSC T-20 and the Sony Cybershot DSC H-7. It is the size which differentiates a compact camera with, say, a semi-pro (like the H3/H5/H7 or the Canon Powershot S3 IS/ S5 IS).


Where would this stand?

http://www.cnet.com.au/story_media/339286128/Camera_1.jpg

8mp, 10x Optical Zoom from 28mm to 280mm, ISO 1600, Optical Image Stabilisation, only 150gms and small enough to fit in your Jeans pocket:)

Got one of these for my Mom last year and she's already putting this to good use:)

[nelson_sanjoy]

Ken: You are right there, Samsung makes sensor chips. So does Sony, and quite a few manufacturers buy their sensors from these two.

Never knew Samsung makes sensor chips then why does it use sensors from Pentax for their DSLR's.

BTT - I think today's P&S cameras are a good VFM. Excepting some extreme situations - it shines in many aspects .

Canon has quite a no. of cameras from SD , SX ,S ,A and G series and I think is currently the leader as far as volumes go.

I think Nikon was a bit late to respond to the bridge P&S (semi-pro P&S) cameras with its P-series lineup.

Sony has a flood of cybershots and H series cameras which I know of - some of them I must say are very stylish.

Pentax has its optio series - dont know much about them.Fuji as already said by @Avancy has quite a few good models .

But personally the brand which I like most when it comes to P&S is Panasonic .I think they are a pretty good VFM specially the FZ ,TZ and some other series.
2 of my friends were confused when they got a good deal last year on thanks giving . I convinced them and they purchased since here we have an option of returning back.

Both of them bought it and were very satisfied and now one of them is asking for my DSLR :)

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Never knew Samsung makes sensor chips then why does it use sensors from Pentax for their DSLR's.

:)

its the other way round.samsung makes sensor for pentax.so both the K20 and GX 20 has the same unit.its like how the D2 or D3xx series is identical to sensor wise to the nikon.

[nelson_sanjoy]

its the other way round.samsung makes sensor for pentax.so both the K20 and GX 20 has the same unit.its like how the D2 or D3xx series is identical to sensor wise to the nikon.

Ohh!!! Thanks for the info ... And I think you meant its like how Nikon D3x is similar to Sony Alpha 900 sensorwise .Sorry for OT.

[anvancy-(macro analyst)]

Ohh!!! Thanks for the info ... And I think you meant its like how Nikon D3x is similar to Sony Alpha 900 sensorwise .Sorry for OT.


sensors mainly remain same between companies.its the processor that makes the companies stand.some give vivid color some dont.if u buy the starter cam,the company knows that the user will not spend time PPing it.so the output is vivid and contrast.when we buy intermediate or above..the co knows we are gonna PP it.

[sabret00the]

Thanks a lot Ken da for the pm.

Well I guess I'm one of the few other users of a Fuji camera in the forum and I must say that I have often come across people who ask me this question why one earth a "Fuji"?
They have never used a Fuji nor have they any idea as to what are the things the camera can do but they are rest assured that Fuji was a bad buy since I could have gotten a better camera had I bought a Canon or a Nikon or a Sony. I have been using this camera for a pretty long time and now that I have been using a Panasonic DMC TZ3 I would still give a overall higher rating to my Fuji.

@anvancy: I was wondering why you did not include the S5600, S5700 or the S5800 in your list. They are a good range of cameras from Fuji. I have been using a S5800 (http://www.thephotographer.in/darkroom/showthread.php?t=57) for quite sometime now and I feel it is a good P&S type superzoom camera.

[KrishnenduKes]

I have been using this camera for a pretty long time and now that I have been using a Panasonic DMC TZ3 I would still give a overall higher rating to my Fuji.

@anvancy: I was wondering why you did not include the S5600, S5700 or the S5800 in your list. They are a good range of cameras from Fuji. I have been using a S5800 (http://www.thephotographer.in/darkroom/showthread.php?t=57) for quite sometime now and I feel it is a good P&S type superzoom camera.

Thanks a lot for your input Sabretoothe.